Secrets Behind Georgia's Renewable Energy Success – A Talk with Commissioner Tim Echols

In this engaging episode of Green Giants: Titans of Renewable Energy, host Wes Ashworth sits down with Commissioner Tim Echols, Vice Chair of the Georgia Public Service Commission. Known for his pivotal role in Georgia's energy landscape, Tim shares the strategic moves that have turned the state into a renewable energy powerhouse. From pioneering solar projects to advancing electric vehicle (EV) infrastructure and leveraging nuclear power, Tim has been at the forefront of innovation while keeping economic responsibility in focus.

Episode Highlights:

• Tim’s Unexpected Journey into Renewable Energy: Tim reveals the origins of his passion for clean energy, starting with his early work on solar thermal technology and his personal experiences that fueled his advocacy.
• Building a Reliable EV Infrastructure: Dive deep into the complexities of EV charger networks and why Tim believes Elon Musk’s approach set a standard that others struggle to match. Discover Tim’s insights on "charging deserts" and how strategic policies are filling these gaps in Georgia.
• Georgia’s Solar Boom: With solar power growing from just 3 megawatts to over 7,800 megawatts, Tim discusses the policies that made this possible. Learn how Georgia has leveraged federal incentives to boost solar energy while balancing economic impacts.
• Overcoming Energy Challenges with Innovation: Tim explores the pressing need for energy solutions that accommodate the demands of AI-driven data centers and the tech sector's expansion. Hear about future-proofing energy infrastructure with commitments from businesses and innovative policies.
• The Case for Nuclear Power: Addressing the controversy surrounding nuclear energy, Tim breaks down the financial and political barriers to expanding nuclear capacity and how the federal government can play a crucial role.
• Navigating Natural Gas Volatility: Tim explains the ripple effects of natural gas price fluctuations on Georgia residents and outlines potential measures to shield consumers from future shocks.
• Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) Technology: Tim passionately advocates for vehicle-to-grid integration, detailing pilot programs that could revolutionize how electric school buses and personal EVs contribute to grid resilience.
• Making Renewable Energy Bipartisan: As a Republican who champions renewable energy, Tim discusses how to make sustainability appealing across party lines, focusing on economic benefits and practical solutions.

Why Listen?

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the evolving energy landscape, particularly in how state-level policies can drive large-scale renewable adoption. Tim’s firsthand experiences and deep insights offer a unique perspective on balancing innovation with economic reality.

Links:
Tim Echols LinkedIn
Tim's Energy Matters Podcast
Clean Energy Roadshow
Teenpact

Wes Ashworth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weslgs/

• Email: wes@leegroupsearch.com
• https://leegroupsearch.com/green-giants-podcast/
• https://leegroupsearch.com/

Transcript

Wes Ashworth (00:26)

Welcome back to Green Giants Titans of Renewable Energy. Today we’re honored to have Tim Echols Vice Chair of the Georgia Public Service Commission as our guest. Tim has played a pivotal role in Georgia’s energy transition, championing initiatives that accelerate the shift to renewable energy and decarbonization. From expanding solar energy projects to advocating for more reliable EV infrastructure and exploring the strategic use of nuclear power, his work has been impactful in shaping policies that balance innovation with economic responsibility.

Tim’s leadership is helping pave the way for a more resilient and sustainable energy landscape in Georgia and beyond. Tim, welcome to the show.

Commissioner Tim Echols (01:01)

Thanks Wes.

Wes Ashworth (01:02)

Yeah, so it’s great to have you on here. I know you’ve been deeply involved in Georgia’s energy landscape for years now, advocating for everything from cleaner energy to infrastructure improvements. I guess what initially inspired you to dive into this field and what keeps you passionate about energy issues today?

Commissioner Tim Echols (01:19)
One of my master’s degrees at the University of Georgia back in, I think around 2004, we did a PR project for a class and a solar thermal company in Athens called Power Partners Solar. They were doing just a really simple solar thermal installation, four, six, eight panels on homes. They were building and assembling the panels right there in there, in a little part of their shop, made transformers, they made chillers for embassies, and they had bought this patent from this guy in California, and we did a little brochure for them, an old marketing program, and in learning about that, I said, you know, I really need to get this on my house.
And so I had them put solar thermal on my house in 2010, and I really just began to learn about renewable energy and got interested in alternative fuel, got a natural gas car, a Honda Civic, and that led to a Nissan Leaf. So really it’s, you know, my experience as a commissioner, I’ve really learned by doing and by seeing, and I love to experience the technology myself.
Wes Ashworth (02:34)
Yeah, I love that. I love that origin story and kind of how it came to be. And to segue a little bit into EVs So you mentioned the issues of broken EV chargers and unreliable charging networks. I guess, can you walk us through what you see as the biggest challenge for EV infrastructure today, especially in states like Georgia?
Commissioner Tim Echols (02:53)
I know Elon Musk is controversial, but I really think the way that he built his company, he built chargers in order to sell cars. And that has produced a very reliable charging network. They were aggressive in getting it out there so you could drive a Tesla all the way across the country. They built them or overbuilt them really. They were building 10, 12, 14 units where a lot of the third party vendors and some of the other companies, they were building two or four. And Elon Musk, I think, delivered a system that now everyone wants to be a part of and everyone’s trying to get in on his chargers. I don’t know that Tesla drivers are happy with their new friends at these chargers, but I feel like that system has really worked.
Other OEM, other car manufacturers, particularly German manufacturers, I think they’ve had to realize, wait a second, we’re building a very high-end, expensive car, but we’re sending people out to a network that is subpar, and in some cases, not working or broken with no amenities that our customers would want, like restrooms, for example, and something to eat, a place to walk your dog, feeling that is safe, high speed internet, security cameras, all the things that if you buy a BMW, Porsche or Mercedes that you’re going to want. I mean, me as a Nissan Leaf driver, a pioneer, I didn’t really care. So I could endure almost anything. But I think as we try to move from the pioneer stage on EVs to everyone else who wants the easy button on this, just haven’t discovered the easy button for EVs yet.
Wes Ashworth (04:40)
Yeah, and thinking about that next stage, From your perspective, what solutions or policy approaches do you think would make the most impact in improving this network overall and encouraging EV adoption for the rest of the population?
Commissioner Tim Echols (04:56)
You know, in 2022, in our integrated resource plan, we were getting some flack from gas stations that said, you know, you’re letting the utility build EV chargers and get recovery on these. That’s not fair. And so we created kind of a new paradigm and said, okay, you know what, we’re going to take the unserved areas of our state where there’s no EV chargers, where there’s what I call a charging desert. And we’re going to give you the first right of refusal as a third party.
The utility is going to say, we’re going to be building chargers in these 12 places. If you are interested in doing that, let us know within 90 days and then what your plans are. And of those 12, we only had one of them come forward and say, we’ll build it there. The other 11, the power company is having to build the chargers there. So I think from a policy perspective, allowing the utility to build chargers in charging deserts or unserved areas. And what I mean by unserved areas is where there’s no chargers. And so it doesn’t necessarily mean the poorest part of town. It might, but it could mean that you’re in a, that you go to a resort area like Tybee Island, Georgia, for example, where there’s a beach, there’s places, you know, beach houses to rent, but there were no chargers. So that would be an unserved area. And Georgia Power did put their charging island there, which consists of one fast charger and two level two chargers. and a lot of utilities were getting pushback from commissioners about allowing them to rate base chargers.
And I just felt like, you know, with as many charger companies that have gone bankrupt, I feel really good about having Georgia Power put a charger that’s not going to get much use out here in this charging desert because I know Georgia Power is not going to go bankrupt. They’re going to service it. They’re going to take care of it. And this is a good way for us to make sure that we have a seamless network for non-Tesla vehicles. And because that’s really where the big gap was.
Wes Ashworth (07:17)
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense and good perspective, kind of seeing it from that point of view. Beyond what you shared there and just thinking again about the evolution of this, making a more reliable network, making it so it is more mainstream adoption. Any other solutions that are on your mind or things that you’re working on?
Commissioner Tim Echols (07:35)
I recently spoke at Harvard, Dr. Elaine Buckberg and the Salata Institute hosted a lot of PhD students from around the country who were doing papers on EVs and they had a little practitioners panel at the end of the event. And I was on that with a couple of other professionals. But I really think that we really need to engage vehicles to grid, or vehicles to home or vehicle to X chargers out there. And for those that maybe aren’t following this, I think about California with over 2 million electric vehicles there.
And given that they do have a grid crisis from time to time on a hot afternoon there, how can you not come up with a way to work with the owners of those 2 million vehicles to be able to access the power of this sitting in those cars and to use it for the benefit of everyone else on that grid so that you don’t have to go out and build that next power plant or buy that next batch of power. So I think this is the next big thing that you’re going to see in the electric vehicle space. There’s a lot of challenges around it because vehicle-to-grid chargers are more expensive. They’re 10 times more expensive than other chargers.
So it may mean that we have to create a way for the utility to own these and lease these to customers. And the customer gets a little payment every time their car is accessed. I think there’s still a lot to work out. But if we’re going to put batteries in fields out there, and we’ve got 2 million cars that have batteries, we might as well figure out a way to use those.
Wes Ashworth (09:22)
Sure, yeah, and I would agree completely. And to switch topics a little bit, just to make sure we cover as many things as we can here. And one of the things we’ve touched on are just data center demand, energy demand, and the future challenges of that. And I know they’re notorious for high energy demand, and that’s increasing. So I guess what are the key concerns around regulating this load in Georgia, especially as AI and other tech sectors grow? I think I saw something that currently, data centers consume maybe 3 to 4% of the total US electricity and are projected to rise to 11 to 12 % by 2030. How accurate is that? I don’t know, but I do think growing is accepted. So how does Georgia view that? How are you viewing that? And just dealing with that load growth.
Commissioner Tim Echols (10:10)
I think the tech companies that have got in here already and have built data centers probably got the very best deal. They were the pioneers that came in early. I think as we prepare to do an integrated resource plan in 2025, I think it’s going to be tougher on them. And what I mean by that is we’re probably going to require data centers to make a duration commitment.
So for example, yeah, we’ll get you that 500 megawatts that you need, that 200 megawatts that you need of power. However, you are going to be on the hook for this for 10 years. And that if you wind up having a more efficient system so that you don’t need the 200 that you subscribe, that you only need half of it because your system has cured and you’ve got more efficient machines or you’re still going to be on the hook for that power. And so that means you need to add more machines. You’re going to be obligated to take what you subscribe to. Because if we’re going to move heaven and earth to get them the power quickly, we need a good commitment from them. Because some of these require larger power lines that are going in front of people’s neighborhood, disrupting those homes, maybe having to do things that we wouldn’t normally do, like build more gas units when we really were making great headway with solar plus storage.
Now, if the data center’s in such a hurry that we’re gonna have to build some combustion turbines, and that’s really kind of a step backwards for us from a pollution standpoint, I mean, we’re going to want them to take the financial responsibility and the financial risk. We just can’t have our residential rate payers take the risk for the data center. So I think, and there’s a lot of risk associated with this. So as we build more generation, acquire more generation, the data centers are going to have to take responsibility for it.
Wes Ashworth (12:19)
Yeah. Do you foresee any other technological advancements making these facilities more energy efficient? Or is there a looming need for policy intervention to manage their footprint beyond that?
Commissioner Tim Echols (12:30)
I was at Duke at the Nicholas Institute and there were a lot of tech companies there. We were just talking about this very topic of data centers and data centers have 100 % backup at their facility, usually tier two diesel generators. And for those that aren’t familiar with the various tier levels, a tier four generator can be used for a grid asset. We can run that for power. You can’t do that with a tier two generator.
Just think of a generator that has this cleaner, this better pollution mitigation. And so we could get maybe data centers to use tier four generators instead of tier two. It is going to be more expensive, but maybe we work out a deal with them to access those generators or move their data center over to those generators 15 minutes on a hot August afternoon and we give them some compensation.
Maybe the power company pays the upcharge for these tier four generators if they’ve got visibility into them. I think there’s a deal that can be struck with this. we could do the same really with solar plus storage. It wouldn’t have to be just the generators because solar plus storage, if it was sized correctly, could provide the data center the backup that they need. If you’ve got enough batteries sitting there and if the utility is helping to pay for part of that in exchange for visibility and access when the utility or when the data center is not using it, that could be a win for everyone.
Wes Ashworth (14:02)
Yeah, no, absolutely. Great perspective, for sure. One other thing that I wanted to hit on as well is just around nuclear. I know some can be controversial. Some support it. Some don’t. I think it is a part of the future, no matter how we look at it. So you’ve mentioned the potential for additional nuclear reactors in Georgia. I guess what are the main barriers to adding these reactors? What role does federal support play? And just generally thinking about that topic overall.
Commissioner Tim Echols (14:30)
Our ratepayers really took it on the chin in building Vogel units three and four. And for those of you that don’t know, these were the first reactors built in the US from scratch in 35 years. I mean, think of it as really paying about double of what we thought we were gonna pay. I’m glad we did it. There’s a lot of good reasons to have done it. I think it’s an economic development magnet. People are coming to Georgia. But for me to do more of them, I’m just going to need to have some kind of assurance that if whoever owns Westinghouse now, Brookfield, a Canadian company, if they go bankrupt because, well, all of these contracts they thought were going to materialize, don’t materialize, and then Georgia is stuck being the only person building this, just like we were with the others, then there is some bankruptcy protection.
Now, Jigar Shah at the DOE loan office says, but we’ve got these investment tax credits now and that kind of acts as an overrun insurance and that may be true. Thus far, it hasn’t been enough to convince me to move forward and build more, but we’ll know. You know, we’ll know more next year when we get into the integrated resource plan and we find out how much power Georgia power does want to build. I’m hearing it could be 6, 7 or 8 gigawatts of power that they want to acquire.
And so maybe, you know, with a new administration, they sweeten the deal. I don’t know. I mean, the Biden administration was pretty pro-nuclear and about the same as the Trump administration, the previous Trump administration. So, you I’m hoping that we’re going to continue to see strong federal support for nuclear and really it needs to come from Congress. I mean, this is not something you do with an executive order. This is going to take a change in our law, in the paradigm, in the way that we have been funding nuclear projects in order for states like Georgia, Illinois, California, others to step up and build nuclear energy.
Wes Ashworth (16:40)
Yeah, and switching gears a bit into more like energy pricing, natural gas volatility. So rising natural gas prices, inflation have led to high energy bills across the board. Can you explain, guess, the interplay between natural gas exports, US energy bills, and how this has affected Georgia residents from your point of view?
Commissioner Tim Echols (17:01)
It certainly has. When Russia invaded Ukraine and there was this backlash from European countries to boycott Russian gas, Germany was getting a lot of gas from Russia. Frankly, a lot of European countries were getting gas from Russia and they decided they wanted to send a message. So they were going to boycott. Well, they still needed gas. They looked to the US. We had excess supply.
We were able to liquefy that. We had the export terminals already stood up. We’ve got one in Savannah that Kinder Morgan runs. And we began to export natural gas to Europe at a pretty good clip. Now, Georgia’s not paying for that. Georgia Power wasn’t paying for it, but it did impact the price that we could buy natural gas for. And 48 % of our generation is natural gas. So that was about a $20 per person impact in Georgia over a three-year period to collect the, you know, the, the overage that we had there. So, our rates were going up because of Plant Vogel about 12%. And then you add another 12 % on top of it or a little bit more for the natural gas. And then we had, we had just done a rate case and increased rates because of the additional transmission that we needed to get solar from South Georgia to North Georgia. And that was like, you know, 12 and 12 and another six. That’s a 30% increase.
That was quite a shock this summer when you layered on top of it summer rates, you know, because of the heat and air conditioners running all the time here in the South. So it was a horrible summer for ratepayers. Things are settling back down with more temperate weather.
And that’s why we, you know, as we build for data centers, we just can’t do another rate increase. I mean, we just had a storm, Helene, the most expensive storm in Georgia’s history, over a billion dollars, the utility spent sitting there in an account that eventually will have to be trued up. So this has been a very difficult time for rate payers in 23, 24, and soon to be 25.
Wes Ashworth (19:20)
Are there any other specific measures or policies you think could shield consumers from this type of volatility in the future?
Commissioner Tim Echols (19:28)
Certainly, you know, I’ve got solar on my house here and that helps me about $40 a month. And since there’s a federal tax credit out there for both solar and the batteries, and depending on the age of your roof, you possibly can get a new roof with the credit as well. So I think folks need to be thinking about that, you’re in a place where you say, we’re going to stay in this house for 20 years, we’re not planning on moving, I’ve got good sun, it’s facing in the right direction, there’s no HOA restrictions, it might be a good move for you to do that because you’re going to get a payback after about eight years where that system’s paid for and now you’ve got half the power bill that you had indefinitely.
So I really think that a lot of people in Georgia need to consider that. And I know they feel like, well, net metering is not here. But with batteries, really doesn’t matter. You can go on a time of use rate. You can put your cheap energy into your batteries and then release those batteries during that expensive time that the utility is charging you on hot summer afternoons, and you can really kind of game the system. And I mean, there’s nothing wrong with it. You’re not cheating anybody. It’s just the way that you’re getting your energy and when you’re using it, you’re just being smarter about it.
Wes Ashworth (20:56)
Yeah, no question. And I would imagine there’s been somewhat of a correlation between those rising natural gas prices, rising inflation, at least making people start to get curious about, I don’t know, maybe I should look into the solar thing, or maybe I look into some other options. I would think that would go directly in hand with each other, but definitely some good thoughts there in terms of who should consider, why should consider as well. Shifting a little bit to some of the federal green energy incentives.
There’s so many federal incentives for renewable energy. I guess what opportunities do you think states and businesses should prioritize from your perspective?
Commissioner Tim Echols (21:31)
You know, for businesses, a lot of them lease their buildings and it’s not, they’re not going to want to do any kind of upgrade on their building. And you can’t blame them. I mean, even energy efficiency, even putting EV chargers in, I’ve seen a lot of hesitation from companies that have a distribution center, a warehouse, even Whole Foods down in Savannah wouldn’t fix the EV charger because they said, well, we don’t own it. It’s owned by our landlord, but the landlord wouldn’t fix it. And Whole Foods, a commercial business that you would think would really care about an EV charger, it boiled down to who was going to pay the bill. I think for companies that are leasing their building, let’s think about how we can incentivize our employees. How could we give our employees a rebate for putting solar on their home?
Could we say, if you do solar on your home, we’re going to give you a thousand dollar bonus towards that. If you get an EV, we’re going to install chargers here and that’s going to be an amenity. But if you’re a company that owns your own building, then certainly you think about how long am I going to be there? You know, can I put solar on this building behind my meter?
Is there a utility program that I can participate in? So either whether you’re renting or leasing, Georgia Power has these commercial solar programs that you, essentially by subscribing to it, you’re triggering the arrays being built. And so you are in fact doing good because your subscription service has caused an array to be built maybe a mile or 5 miles or 20 miles or 50 miles from your location. So I think there’s outreach that the utility can do. And I think as companies hire sustainability directors and others that are thinking about this type of thing, they can, you know, they can make a difference. You can also do all kinds of things like glass recycling. That’s not or other type of recycling, but glass in particular, because that’s going in the landfills in Georgia.
So how can you work with a company that’s involved like Arglass in Valdosta, and get glass down to a glass furnace that’s infinitely recyclable. How can I be a part of that? How can I help my customers and my vendors practice greater sustainability in what they’re doing, whether it’s the vehicles they’re driving or the things they’re doing at home? So I think companies can do way more than they think they can do. They just need to be creative.
Wes Ashworth (24:22)
Yeah, it’s a good point. And you see a lot of that, companies putting out their sustainability goals and their focus. But I think you are right, I think sometimes it’s the path that isn’t as clear as they thought it was going to be. And so any other solutions that would help them know, OK, here are some pathways that you can explore. Here are some things you can do. I guess with that is what you’re seeing with the corporations in Georgia or the major businesses in Georgia.
Is there anything, I guess ideas or creative ideas you’ve seen companies do that you wish every company knew about or different things that other people could try?
Commissioner Tim Echols (24:56)
You know, a lot of these European countries coming in to do business in Georgia have been doing things on the other side of the Atlantic that is far more sustainable than a lot of the practices here. So they’re bringing those practices and they’re surprised that we don’t have these things going on. So I think there’s a leadership role for those companies to play. I think Companies that have fleets of vehicles really need to evaluate, know, is there a way I can use alternative fuel vehicles in this fleet? How many of them could we use? What would be the duty cycle of them? What routes would we put them on? And how could we make that work? I’ve been doing the Clean Energy Roadshow here in Georgia. This will be our 15th year. We do this every summer.
But there are companies that, you know, they’ve been doing things the same way for a long time and now all of sudden they decide, okay, I wonder if we could do this a little bit differently. And so we try to show them solutions that might work. Sometimes it doesn’t work for them. So we’re not trying to force anything on anybody, but we certainly want them to consider these things. And I think there are opportunities for stores that have backup generation like Target, Walmart, grocery stores to participate in a Georgia Power program where they get a new tier four generator and the utility has visibility into it, much like we talked about with the data centers earlier, but we’re actually doing this with these big box stores.
And then we run their store with an algorithm on that generator for 15 minutes, the entire store, the frozen food, the lights, the air condition, everything goes over seamlessly. And then that frees up a half a megawatt or a megawatt on the grid. I think fine tuning the grid is something we really should do. And it is an efficient thing to do. It saves everyone money. It’s not the sexiest thing to do. It’s not like I’ve got a cool EV there or I’m looking at some shiny solar panels. But it is efficiency. And efficiency allows the system to operate at a peak level at the lowest possible price. And everybody loves that.
Wes Ashworth (27:22)
Yeah, there’s a lot of different levers you can turn, right, to make an impact. So I think it’s important to explore all of those, you know, sort of get creative, learn, as you said, from some of the leaders that are coming from Europe and other areas that are a little bit further ahead and some of the things that they’re doing that they’ve been doing for a long time. So I think that’s a great perspective. One thing I definitely want to spend a bit of time on is just around, bipartisan support for renewable energy, which I know I’m personally very passionate about, I think it is a bipartisan thing that should be supported on both sides.
And you can see a lot of benefits from that. As you are in an office as a Republican who supports renewable energy, I would love to hear from your perspective, what do you see as the most compelling, just bipartisan arguments for accelerating the energy transition?
Commissioner Tim Echols (28:11)
Sustainability is kind of a journey. think about my journey into electric vehicles. had a hybrid, a plug-in hybrid, then a fully battery electric. And I was speaking in Berkeley, California a couple of weeks ago to a vehicle to grid conference. And I reminded the audience and when I asked how many of you have an EV, virtually every hand in the room went up. It was the highest concentration of EVs of any audience I’ve ever been in. And I said, do you remember?
Do you remember your first Prius? Do you remember looking at that dash camera, that screen, and seeing how efficient your car was and that you were getting 55 miles per gallon and you were using battery, I mean, you were using your kinetic energy and your brakes to charge your battery. And we can’t expect the people that are out here now to skip all of those steps that we went through as sustainability pioneers. So we have to give them time to experience that. And so I think we get impatient with people that they aren’t where we’re at right now. When I found that, if the sustainability community will learn to speak Republican, and that means talking a lot about economic development and saving money, it goes a long way in helping a Republican official who are sitting there maybe thinking all of this is subsidized, all of this is inefficient.
It goes a long way to helping them see that, yeah, deploying solar in South Georgia in a hundred acre field, you know, puts downward pressure on rates and helps everyone. Well, that is not intuitive to people and especially to Republicans. And so helping them see that charging a car overnight makes the distribution grid and our generation plants more efficient. And so people that drive EVs are actually helping the grid be more efficient. So that is, again, not something that’s intuitive. And so we have to explain that and we have to win these people over.
I know I’ve let a lot of people drive my EVs extensively. I’ve got EVs for my colleagues to drive. I’ve loaned my Nissan Leaf to various officials for weeks at a time, weeks. I’ve taught them to charge it. I’ve helped them see how this works and here’s what the brakes do. so I know that’s kind of old school and slow, but it is something that all of us that are kind of participating in this sustainability economy right now need to be mindful of. We need to take the time to do that. And then, of course, countering just false information with legislators out there in Georgia who think that solar in Georgia is subsidized.
It’s not. And explaining that to them. That’s why I do the Clean Energy Roadshow. That’s why I do the EV Brain Trust. That’s why I have a radio show, in four markets and talk about this stuff all the time because educating people is really how you kind of overcome these obstacles.
Wes Ashworth (31:24)
Yeah, I love several of the points you made there. Especially like I love just meeting people where they are, right? Sometimes it is easy to forget. Like they’re at the beginning of their journey. You were there a while back and so you have to meet them where they are today. There’s little incremental changes and it’s the same as any company out there would go, well, how do you transform a corporation? How do you get change bought in?
It’s incremental. You got to meet them where they are and you got to slowly get some buy-in as they go down the path and down the journey until then it’s acceptance as well too. So I love a lot of that. From your perspective again, and I love your kind of right in sort of bridging this gap between this divide or what have you and you’re doing so much for the industry with the road shows you mentioned. And I would love for you to get into that a little bit too and tell us about that.
But any other ideas or your thoughts around is there a way, how do we bridge the gap, make renewable energy less of a political issue, and how might that be just shifted for the better?
Commissioner Tim Echols (32:27)
Sometimes I think when you have a crisis that people pay attention more to possible solutions. I think the data centers are presenting us with a crisis. And the crisis is that we don’t have enough power. So how can we use this crisis to educate those that have been just kind of lukewarm to solar and storage and other technologies, well, I think what we can do is we can make opportunities for customers out here on the distribution grid, whether they’re EMC customers or Georgia Power customers to participate in having a virtual power plant and to be compensated. So let’s switch the conversation to here’s how you can help us meet the energy needs of the future.
You can get solar plus batteries on your home. And if you participate in this program, you’re going to be compensated as the utility accesses that Tesla battery wall or that power wall or that EV in your garage. And we figure out, particularly with Republicans, because I think the Democrats are there. I think they would vote yes on any sustainability policy. But I think if we can show Republicans that, by putting resources and distributing them out here into millions of homes, that we can still keep the power company, the power company, and give them the responsibility, the money that they need to run their company. But we can mitigate this problem that we have and this tremendous need by allowing others to participate.
So it’s a matter of allowing the utility to get the compensation and to convince customers that this is worth your investment. And this is going to be the easy button for you to be able to participate. Both need education. The utility, Georgia Power, they’re going to be resistant to changing their business model. And so we may need to let them financially benefit from all of these solar arrays and these batteries out here on the system. And then of course, the customers are going to benefit from it if we’ve priced it correctly, if we’ve given them the right incentive. It needs to be attractive financially for them too.
Wes Ashworth (35:00)
Yeah, well said. And I’ll circle back to, can you give us just a minute overview of the road show and some of the other things you’re doing? And I’ll make sure I’ll link those into show notes so people can explore that further, but do you wanna touch on that for a second?
Commissioner Tim Echols (35:14)
Yeah, cleanenergyroadshow.com was created in 2011. There wasn’t really an EV out there, hardly. There was one or two in 2011. I think the Tesla Roadster was out there. I don’t even think the Model S had been created. There was no Nissan Leaf in America yet. I think they had it in Japan. But there were natural gas vehicles. There were certainly CNG trucks, there were propane vehicles. So we had all of those things and we would showcase them with, not a ride and drive. It’s just you would come, it’s like a car show, you would come and see it eight o’clock in the morning and then come inside for a seminar. And then the different vendors who had these vehicles or different leaders in the technologies would talk about it and then we would end with a luncheon.
So we kept that same model since 2011, but certainly the inventory of vehicles has grown, been so many things now and the technology’s just gotten better. Propane, natural gas, and of course electric, now even with hydrogen vehicles out there. So we’re continuing to travel the state in the summertime and go to different cities and showcase it, invite legislators, invite city council members, and of course the media, and it gets good press and it’s a way for people to get educated about it.
Wes Ashworth (36:44)
Yeah, it’s such a cool creative idea and I love it. Just boots on the ground, practical. And again, I’ll link that in the show notes for people to check out as well. Thinking about Georgia, where things are headed, I guess any particular projects or initiatives that you’re especially excited about right now?
Commissioner Tim Echols (36:59)
You know, at the top of my list right now is a pilot program for Georgia Power customers for vehicle to grid, both school systems that have electric school buses, Bluebird school buses that are made here in Georgia or Thomas buses that are made in North Carolina to be able to participate in a utility run program. I would be happy with just the school bus if it came forward this next year, but I’m asking the utility to come up with something for EV drivers as well. We’ll see if it happens there. Vehicle to grid is expensive. California is just piloting this now, there’s a pilot in Oakland with the Oakland Unified School District. have 74 BYD school buses all tied in with a 50 kilowatt ZUM chargers, vehicle-to-grid chargers. And there’s 1Z, 2Z projects around the country.
I think Formada Energy has a program for Nissan Leafs, but it’s few and far between. So it would be fantastic if Georgia Power could work with these companies. And Siemens bought Heliox, a company, and they’ve got a facility in Atlanta where they have a 45 kilowatt vehicle-to-grid charger that has just been UL listed. And I’m asking Georgia Power to send one of their Silverados or one of their F-150 Lightnings over and let Siemens play with that for a quarter and kind of get familiar with it, let Georgia Power have the data. So I’m working behind the scenes and trying to get this done.
Of course, the big energy acquisition we’re going to do next year, if it involves building more nuclear, that’s certainly going to get a lot of attention around the world because the US, as anxious as everyone is to talk about building nuclear, no one else has really stepped up to do it and signed an order book. I mean, you got MOUs, got, want to do this, we’re planning on this, but getting someone to actually financially commit is something that’s not happening. And I think in Georgia, I think we would do it. I think we would build two more if the financial situation was right. So that would be a big deal. And of course, continuing to grow solar plus storage in a really big way in Georgia is something I’m very interested in doing as well.
Wes Ashworth (39:29)
Yeah, no, I love it. Any other top priorities for you in the coming years as you continue your work on the Georgia Public Service Commission?
Commissioner Tim Echols (39:38)
I have an election next year, two of them, a primary and a general. So I guess I better focus a little bit on that or I won’t be doing this job anymore. So, you know, that is there’s only a few states where you have to get elected as a commissioner. So I’ve got that burden strapped around me and I’ll have to spend half of my energy next year just on that. And so it’s going to be, it’s going to be a lot of work. I’m not really looking forward to it, but it’s something I have to do. I guess I better focus on that.
Wes Ashworth (40:08)
Yeah, it makes sense. Yep. Got to do it. Got to do it. You know, we’re getting towards the end of 2024 heading into 2025. We just had an election. Obviously, things swing there. From your perspective, you know, looking at things, looking at the future, looking at 2025 and beyond, what are your feelings for the growth of renewable energy, the success of continued, you know, adoption and expansion into these these projects and other other things are going on in the industry. I guess what are your overall just feelings and where do you think it’s going to go?
Commissioner Tim Echols (40:48)
Georgia certainly has pulled down more than its fair share in Inflation Reduction Act money. So I think that surprised a lot of people, particularly blue states, think blue state leaders, blue state commissioners that I’ve talked with went, how did y’all get all those projects down there? How did you get that electric car plant? How did you get the Q-cells plant, the SK plant? I mean, we got all of these massive clean energy plants. Ithink we want to keep that going.
I think there’s just a lot of value to bringing the full supply chain back onshore. So that is a huge deal. Yeah, for me, loving the education aspect of my job, I love to help consumers be able to use technology in a wise way and save money and feel like, we’ve got all these things connected in our house, and I’ve got this EV out there, and the utility’s accessing this, and I’m on this smart thermostat program. And I love that kind of thing. I love seeing consumers get engaged. And I want to continue to do so. I can’t help but continue that because I love the education aspect that this job allows me to have.
Wes Ashworth (42:02)
Yeah, and that kind of leads into what I was going to ask you here towards the end is just looking ahead. What’s the legacy you hope to leave in Georgia’s energy sector overall?
Commissioner Tim Echols (42:11)
I’ve been in this seat 14 years. So if I get reelected, I’ll have another five. That’d be 20 years. That’s a substantial amount of my life. I think building Plant Vogel three and four, getting that done when everyone else threw in the towel, I think that will be an important part of my legacy. I think when I took office, we had three megawatts of solar in Georgia. we have, by the end of 2028, we will have 7,800 megawatts installed.
And so I think, man, that’s a lot. That’s a huge increase that I’ve been able to oversee. Then, of course, all of the things that I do with young people that not really associate with the commission, creating TeenPact T-E-E-N-P-A-C-T, teenpact.com, and taking it to all 50 states.
The work I’ve done to fight human trafficking here with the Unholy Tour, the recycling projects I’ve done for high schools, all of these extra things that really aren’t a part of my job. In some ways, I feel like it’s even a more important legacy than just putting panels out there or building a nuclear plant. So we need all of those in our society, but I think at the end of my life, I certainly want tom I want to impact lives. I want to make a difference.
Wes Ashworth (43:40)
Yeah, it’s really good, really powerful. Final question, just wrapping up, anything else you want to put out there, anything you want to share with the audience, anything we didn’t get to cover?
Commissioner Tim Echols (43:49)
I think if you haven’t considered solar on your home or a community solar program that you could participate in, let me encourage you to do that, especially if you preach this stuff, if you believe it, you really need to be living it. Even if it’s a little bit more expensive, you need to set the pace to lead out on this because the more that we get, the cheaper it’s going to be. So I always encourage people to, don’t just speak in theory about things.
Speak with authority. And the way you speak with authority is by doing it. And it allows you to be a better advocate for it. It allows you to know the best way to do it and the not so great ways to do it. And so be authentic. Live what you’re preaching and adopt the technologies in your own life.
Wes Ashworth (44:37)
Yeah, I love that so much. A great way to just wrap it up. Thank you so much, Tim, for coming on, sharing your insights and passion with us today. It’s clear your work is not only impacting the present energy landscape, but it’s also shaping the future of sustainable energy in meaningful ways. So for our listeners as always, if you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe, leave us a review, and please share this episode with your network. And we will see you next time.