Community Solar’s Hidden Engine: Trust, Access, and Scale with Sandhya Murali

Episode: Sandhya Murali, Chief Strategy & Marketing Officer at Perch Energy

Community solar is often described as a simple promise: sign up, receive credits, save money, and support clean energy. But behind that promise is a complex operating system that determines whether community solar actually works for customers, developers, utilities, and the communities it is meant to serve.

In this episode of Green Giants: Titans of Renewable Energy, Wes Ashworth sits down with Sandhya Murali, Chief Strategy & Marketing Officer at Perch Energy, to unpack the hidden infrastructure behind one of the most important segments of the clean energy transition.

Sandhya brings a rare combination of capital markets discipline, founder operating experience, and deep commitment to clean energy access. Before joining Perch, she co-founded Solstice, a mission-driven community solar company focused on expanding access for renters, low-to-moderate income households, and others historically left out of rooftop solar. Her earlier career in investment banking at Barclays, along with her MBA from MIT Sloan, gives her a unique lens on how mission, finance, and market design intersect in renewable energy. 

This conversation moves beyond the usual case for community solar and into the work most people never see: subscriber acquisition, billing, crediting, eligibility verification, compliance, customer trust, and retention. Sandhya explains why community solar is not only about generating clean power. It is also about making sure the customer experience is reliable, understandable, and financially meaningful.

A major theme throughout the episode is trust. Many customers still wonder whether community solar is real, whether there is a catch, and whether the savings will actually appear on their utility bill. Sandhya breaks down how clear enrollment, accurate billing, transparent savings, and responsive customer support all shape whether the model can scale.

The episode also explores low-to-moderate income access and why Sandhya believes inclusion cannot be treated as a side initiative. She makes the case that community solar should be designed for the households most burdened by energy costs, while also remaining financeable for developers and investors. That means better program design, simplified enrollment, utility consolidated billing, and practical solutions that reduce friction without increasing risk.

Wes and Sandhya also discuss Perch Energy’s role as a scaled community solar subscriber management platform. After Perch’s acquisition of Solstice, the company manages more than 3 GW across over 1,000 community solar projects in 16 states, serving more than 430,000 residential customer equivalents. 

Key topics covered include:

•  Why the hardest part of community solar is often invisible 
•  How subscriber management functions like critical infrastructure 
•  Why trust is the foundation of customer adoption and retention 
•  The importance of utility consolidated billing 
•  How self-attestation could simplify low-income enrollment 
•  Why community solar markets need stable policy and predictable rules 
•  How scale helps, and where local market complexity remains 
•  What regulators and utilities can do to improve program design 
•  Why community solar matters in a future defined by load growth, affordability, and distributed energy 

For clean energy leaders, developers, policymakers, investors, and anyone working to make the energy transition more inclusive, this episode offers a practical and deeply human look at what it takes to turn clean energy access into reality.

Links:
Sandhya Murali on LinkedIn
Perch Energy's Website

Wes Ashworth: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weslgs/

• Email: wes@leegroupsearch.com
• https://leegroupsearch.com/green-giants-podcast/
• https://leegroupsearch.com/

Transcript

Wes Ashworth (00:25)

Welcome back to Green Giants, Titans of Renewable Energy. Today's guest is Sandhya Murali, Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer at Perch Energy. Sandhya brings a perspective that is especially valuable right now because her career has spanned both capital markets and clean energy access. Before joining Perch, she co-founded Solstice and helped build it into one of the most mission-driven companies in community solar, with a strong focus on expanding access for renters and low to moderate income households.

Earlier in her career, she worked in investment banking at Barclays. And today she's helping shape of largest community solar platforms in the country. This conversation goes beyond the standard case for community solar. We're getting into the part of the market most people never see. Subscriber management, billing, trust, market design, low income access, and what it really takes to make clean energy participation work in the real world. With that, Sandhya, welcome to the show.

Sandhya Murali (01:18)

Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

Wes Ashworth (01:20)

Yeah, it's pleasure to have you on and as always, we'll kind of start with your path into this work because it's not the most obvious route into community solar. And I think that's what gives it a really distinct lens on the industry and gives you unique perspective. So you started in investment banking, spent time at Barclays through the recession, then went to MIT, ended up building in community solar. What changed along the way just in how you wanted to spend your career?

Sandhya Murali (01:44)

That's a great question. So I did start my career off in investment banking, started off with the Great Recession. So that was an interesting start to full-time work and the start of my career. But I managed to really have a positive several years at Barclays. Was able to move to London and spend a couple of years building out the equity capital markets team there. And then came back and kind of spent the remainder of my time in New York.

but I'd always wanted to transition, kind of looked at banking as sort of a foundational experience and wanted to transition into something a bit more mission aligned, social impact oriented. And I had been involved while at Barclays in a lot of the company's philanthropy efforts, which were mostly centered around financial access, financial inclusion. but the plan had always been, you know, kind of go back to, to grad school and sort of pivot my career. So that was the intent when I moved up to Boston for grad school.

And that's, credit MIT with really kind of getting me a lot more interested in energy, sustainability and renewables. I hadn't had much exposure to that previously. And so there's a lot of focus on sustainability and energy at MIT. And so kind of got hooked on that. And then of course, the startup bug, everyone and anyone is trying to start a company at MIT. And so, you know, my final year there, I thought, Hey, why don't, let me see if I can volunteer, some time with

a company that's just starting off. And it was through that process that really serendipitously I got connected to my co-founder, Steph Spears. We also had a third co-founder at the time, Steve Moylan. And the two of them had really just started Solstice. So that's when I first learned about the concept of community solar was just starting to take off. And the angle that they were working towards was, hey, it's not just getting more community solar projects onto the grid, but it's really about expanding access and making sure

this clean energy transition as equitable and just. so that dual environmental social mission was what really compelled me. I could focus on issues that would have a real impact here at home, but also thinking about how to expand the proliferation of renewables, distributed generation, community solar specifically to help decarbonize the grid. So that's kind of what brought me in. I mean, in those early days I was

leveraging my finance background to build some of our first financial models and figure out how we navigate building the company. But then obviously, you know, had to wear many hats over the, you know, now just over a decade of building that company.

Wes Ashworth (04:14)

Yeah, think a lot of it's a phenomenal story, by the way. And it's a lot of lessons that can be learned there even for early professionals, like getting that foundation, that financial foundation, but then eventually leveraging that to get to like where your heart and passion really was and really making a difference in an impact. Like I love that. That's like the textbook example. You'd like every young professional should do something similar to this, but it's fantastic. So you mentioned a little bit. what I guess drew you into community solar specifically, like there's a lot of

Sandhya Murali (04:34)

Yeah.

Wes Ashworth (04:42)

areas you could have gone, lot of different areas you could have touched, but community solar has really been a dominant part of where you've stayed focused. Like, what was that draw for you?

Sandhya Murali (04:51)

Yeah, I would say it was the piece that sort of centered around inclusion and access that really drew me in because I, you know, like I mentioned, I'd always wanted to sort of transition my career, my experience and even looking at my father's career had always been around international development space. so thinking about how to lift people out of poverty, right. And that was more kind of my experience and background had been more on an international scale. But

Finding a product that could be brought to people here in the US that could help make a real meaningful impact on how people are managing their monthly bills, rethinking their energy use, actually thinking about their energy use at all and figuring out ways to not just save money but also help contribute to the decarbonization mission. That's really what brought me into Community Solar and why I think it's such a cool and amazing product that I hope proliferates more across the country.

Wes Ashworth (05:43)

Yeah, great. I love that so much. And I agree the perfect reasons to get into it and the impact that you can have there. So thinking about so you help co-found Solstice. You've been through it kind of like that startup feel and growing and scaling and not for the faint of heart. But looking back, like what was like the earliest hard lesson that maybe forced you to become a more disciplined operator, not just, you know, a mission driven founder, but focused on that disciplined operation?

Sandhya Murali (05:59)

I think that's a great question. And I think some of the biggest lessons that I've learned are around, you know, how to manage teams and how to cultivate people. And one of our earliest mentors, advisors kind of talked about the concept of a startup as an ecosystem with inflows and outflows. And so you really have to be open and honest about who the right people are for the company at the stage, you know,

growth and maturity that the company is in. And not everyone is good at a particular time. And you may bring people in that were great initially, and then sort of grow out, you know, both person and company sort of grow out of each other. And you realize you need a different type of person for, you know, a similar type of, for a new kind of role. And I think, you know, not saying that I'm perfect at making that judgment call, but I think that

That required a lot of learning to be able to say, hey, maybe this isn't the right fit anymore. We have to change how we're structuring our teams. And you sometimes have to make some hard decisions. And those are, those are hard when, you know, people, especially, you know, at Solstice and rebuilding the company, everyone, everyone really was drawn in by the mission. So you have really good people, genuine people working with you that sometimes, you know, become, don't become the right fit that you need anymore. And that's, I think a tough.

management lesson to learn and but something that you need to be disciplined about in order to continue to grow and sort of, you know, ensure that the organization is meeting the moment, you know, in your industry and in your maturity.

Wes Ashworth (07:35)

Yeah, I think that's such a, important one. It's like you said, a very difficult one. Cause there's some of those people like they're, they're with you from the beginning, you know, they're, they're in the trenches with you building it and like they're your people. but you do reach a point where those people may not be the right people to kind of get you to the next level. and it's tough, you know, because you do have that, that attachment and things like that. That's a tough lesson to learn. But when people get it right, they really get it right. I think the thing people

Sandhya Murali (07:43)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Wes Ashworth (08:00)

gives me a little bit of peace of mind sometimes in thinking about that is like it's right for that person as well. know, and usually they realize it as well. maybe initially there's like a, you know, that doesn't feel good. But then they're like, you know, they were right, you know, and I'm in a better place or I get to go do something that's more,  how I'm hardwired and what I'm what I'm passionate about as well, too, and kind of helping build another company or get them to that stage. So it takes all those kinds, but it's tough being able to make those decisions in the moment.

Sandhya Murali (08:06)

Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, and I would say that's true for myself as well. And I know for my co-founder too, as we were growing the company, we changed as people and how we had to communicate to our teams, operate processes, protocols that we had to put in place as we got bigger and larger as an organization. So it's a journey, not just for the team, but it's for us as leaders too.

not the same person I was when we first started the organization as I am today and sort of how we think about what's important and how to set priorities and kind of keep people aligned to a mission, to a goal, whatever it is.

Wes Ashworth (09:00)

I agree wholeheartedly. So let's move a little bit from just your personal journey into the business itself because community solar is often described in a way that makes the asset visible and the operating system invisible. So it gets discussed oftentimes like the product is solar power. But in practice, the hard part seems to be enrollment, crediting, billing, compliance and retention. Talk to us about that. What business are you actually in and what's the real picture there?

Sandhya Murali (09:24)

Yeah, so if you really zoom in on our business, we're not just selling community solar, we're operating the subscriber side of community solar, making sure that it works at scale. So we're helping to sell community solar subscriptions to households, to businesses, but really what, yes, we're doing all that, but what we're really doing is helping to make these investments on the part of developers more stable, more predictable, more profitable, less risky. So on the ground that's...

kind of everything that encompasses operational excellence, right? So it is acquiring and placing the right mix of subscribers on the right projects at the right time. But on the compliance point, it's making sure they're eligible to meet program standards, making sure customers are accurately credited and billed, keeping projects compliant across all the different market rules. Every state really has a different set of rules that we need to manage.

We need to work with all of the individual utilities. Many States have multiple utilities. We have to work with all the regulators to make sure things are running as intended. And so the devil really is in the details, you know, when something breaks, whether it's on the billing side, customer eligibility, the customer experience churn on projects, right? So when customers cancel and we need to refill, it's our job to fix it quickly so that our developer partners can have trust in the revenue stream that's coming from these projects.

and subscribers in turn have trust in the savings that we're promising them, right? So it's all of those little things that kind of come together to make, that's our job to ensure run smoothly.

Wes Ashworth (10:51)

Absolutely. It's such an important reframe because it shifts the conversation more from generational owned to everything required, know, all those different layers you just mentioned to actually make participation really work and explains why those visible parts of the value chain can end up being some of the most strategically important or the least visible parts of the value chain rather is what I meant to say from your experience building in this space, what are some of those sort of invisible points of failure? Maybe you mentioned a few there just in community solar that outsiders almost really never see?

Sandhya Murali (11:17)

So I think the primary point of failure here is really around one core idea, and that's trust. How easily it can break, how many small things have to go right to maintain it. So from the outside, community solar is really simple. You sign up, you save money. But as we just talked about, there's a lot of different moving pieces between that promise when customers sign up to what they actually see. When and what the customer actually sees each month.

So billing, for example, if a customer doesn't understand their bill or if the savings don't show up the way that they're expecting it to, that's something that we need to manage. And we need to ensure that we fix it if there actually is a problem. With the utilities on the crediting and allocation side, there's delays that can happen with the utility. And so we need to make sure we're on top of that, that if there is a delay, we can then in turn communicate that both to subscribers and to

During the enrollment expectations aren't clearly set up front for the subscriber. So how the program works, what solar farm they're going to be on, when that solar farm will energize, you know, we're going to then be setting ourselves up for a skeptical subscriber. And that's the last thing we want, right? All of this works if customers have a good experience signing up, know what they're getting into. And then when the savings start to flow on their, onto their utility bill, they're getting what they expected.

And that will encourage them to say, hey, I'm actually benefiting from this product. I want to refer my friends and family that builds that kind of viral nature of community solar, that positive ecosystem, and allows us to continue to expand that customer base. But it all relies that there's just so many little pieces that if anything breaks, we need to be on top of it to make sure we don't erode that trust that we've worked so hard to build.

Wes Ashworth (12:55)

Yeah. And I love that you went there. Trust so hard to build, so easy to lose, you know, just one minor thing and just the importance of that. It often determines like to me whether a market scales well or struggles quietly. And good reminder that energy businesses often succeed or fail in the handoff between a great technical concept or great concept and a reliable customer experience where that trust is maintained. A lot of little nuance there.

Sandhya Murali (13:00)

Yes.

Wes Ashworth (13:18)

So Perch now operates at enormous scale, you know, after consolidation. What does scale actually improve in this business and what problems sort of maybe stubbornly local and messy?

Sandhya Murali (13:29)

so scale absolutely matters, right? It allows us to build repeatability and resilience into our systems. You know, with enough scale, we can invest in better technology, tighter processes, better talent, you know, all the things that come with just having a broader base of customers and of projects. I think that right now, scale can also help with market volatility, right? So if we are, we're present in all 16, you know, 16 major community solar markets. And so

If we have some softness in one market, but another one is growing, we're present in both, we can sort of manage those short, you know, hopefully short-term political headwinds. So scale has absolutely been instrumental and is important for our developer clients as well to have a strong partner that's going to be there for the 20, 25 year life of these projects. But like I mentioned earlier, every state program and some states have multiple programs is different, right? And that's where

the parts of the business that continue to remain stubborn and messy. And you really need experts on the customer, this customer management side of the business to understand those policy nuances, those program nuances very deeply. And so, you know, utilities behave differently. The billing systems aren't standardized. Policy changes don't always roll out cleanly. And so it's not like, hey, we've gone to the size, we've scaled once and everything will magically work out,

We're constantly evolving and adapting to changes in programs, that utilities have as they continue to improve systems, right? It'll be a bit more slowly, but they're continuing to improve upon things and it's incumbent upon us to make sure that we stay ahead of that, we adapt. And we need people who are experts in this business to be able to do that.

Wes Ashworth (15:04)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, as you said, a of things improve with scale in this, but there's still lot of those nuances state by state and a lot of that complexity that you have to master and deal with as you go. So I want to stay with the operating side of the business a bit and now move a little closer to the customer because one of the strongest through lines in your work has been who actually gets included in this transition. And even in your career, you have this through line of treated  low

Sandhya Murali (15:12)

Absolutely.

Wes Ashworth (15:28)

moderate income access as a side initiative, it's really been a primary driver. Why has that remained just so central for you?

Sandhya Murali (15:34)

Yeah, I think, you know, if clean energy is only working for people with disposable income or home ownership, then we haven't really solved anything. We're just creating a greener version of the same inequities. Energy is a universal need. Everyone pays a utility bill for the most part. And so for people, it's one of the most stressful, least flexible expenses they have, right? So if we're building products in this space, they should be designed to include people who need that relief most.

So that's kind of from the mission perspective, And sort of what's, what I believe to be true. But from a business perspective, this is a massive and underserved market. So I think treating low income inclusion as sort of a nice to have misses the mark morally. Yes, but also strategically, right? And there's a market opportunity here, but we need to make sure the programs and the markets are designed for, you know, certain demographic of customer. And we'll probably get into that, but

it's just important to do as we kind of go embark on this broader clean energy transition.

Wes Ashworth (16:31)

The conviction really stands out and it's one, the heart and passion behind we should do this because it's the right thing to do, but also there's a really true business case for it and that there are a lot more of those households out there. There's a lot more of that opportunity out there as well too. And if that's an untouched market, we're just missing so much of it. But that direct correlation between energy and just kind of like

know, financial livelihood, how connected those two are is always apparent, you know, as we go through this. So again, love that passion there. So you've through this, you've also argued that low income verification should be simplified, ideally leading to something closer to What's broken in the current system and what does that process signal that just to the very people of the industry says it wants to serve?

Sandhya Murali (16:57)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think the that I can make is that we shouldn't have to make people prove, jump through hoops to prove that they're poor, right? So the concept of self attestation is that there are income thresholds that we're setting. So, you know, low income, low to moderate income is defined in different ways based on, you know, HUD criteria and different geographies. And so whatever that definition is, we can simply ask

households that are signing up, hey, do you self attest that your household income is below this amount? If so, great, we will put you on the low income project. And generally, if you are a low income customer on one of these projects, you're generally getting a slightly higher discount, right? And that's great for those households that again, are paying a disproportionate percentage of their income on energy and could stand to benefit from a greater level of savings.

So that basic kind of premise is where is what self attestation is built on. but the other piece of it is, you know, just thinking about from my perspective of, know, we're managing a business. If we are asking customers for sensitive information, right. pay stubs, know, documentation that they would have submitted to the IRS, right.

I don't really want us to be holding all that information. Of course, if we have to do it, we're managing it securely. But in an ideal world, we just wouldn't have to maintain and hold records of that information. And so self attestation sort of allows us to do that. like, yep, just check the box. We're asking the question, right? So customers have to say, yes, I do qualify. But there's been very little, if any, evidence that there's fraud in this market.

people are taking advantage of a system. And so I think there's very little risk in kind of moving towards that approach and also standardizing that across the state programs and also at the federal level with the, under the IRA, we have the category for low income bonus credits. And so that is a program that can be sort of layered onto any state program. so standardizing that, the requirements across both federal and the different state programs that also just

simplify things, make things a lot easier.

Wes Ashworth (19:19)

It makes a ton of sense. I always kind of try to look at those things in terms of risk reward, right? And I think the reward is great. The risk is little, makes sense. And kind of with this, there's sort of brutal tension here. So the households that who need energy savings the most often face those, the most barriers to qualifying is what we're starting to touch on there. How do you design for inclusion without making, making projects unfinanceable? We've talked about an example there, but anything else comes to mind that that would also help with that?

Sandhya Murali (19:26)

yeah, absolutely,

Yeah, absolutely. So I think there's probably two elements. One is ensuring that projects have a diversity of customer types. So you can have a low income requirement, whether that's, you know, 50 % of the project or, you know, a meaningful amount. And then as long as the other, the back half of that project can be comprised of non-low income, resi or small commercial, large commercial, you can sort of diversify the, you know, what we call off takers on these projects.

projects and diversify the risk that way. The other way to really de-risk these projects is for utilities to adopt what's called consolidated billing. Right? And so that's essentially where they're applying the credits onto customer bills and then placing the charge for those credits on those bills too. So if you are getting a hundred dollars of credit and you have a 20 % savings, we're going to charge you $80 for those credits. And so if that all is happening on the bill, the utilities kind of

performing that service, then you're really de-risking the revenue collection piece, which is what financiers are most concerned about when you're signing up customers that say you haven't performed a credit check on, which typically is prohibited to do for low income customers. And so if more utilities adopt a utility consolidated billing model where they're netting out those credits and sort of paying the entire value of those credits out to the developer,

then you're really de-risking that revenue stream. And at that point, it's really just, you know, our main job is to make sure the projects stay fully subscribed. And again, if we make it easier for especially low income households to sign up for these projects, then we're going to have churn. Customers are going to move. People are going to leave, you know, for one reason or another. We know that's going to happen. But if we can easily replace them because we haven't created barriers to enrollment, like

you know, give us all of your pay stubs and social security information so we can verify that you meet the income level. If we remove all those barriers, then, it is our job to maintain these projects. And that's something that we're very confident in being able to do. So I think kind of having that diversity of off-take mix and having utilities adopt this consolidated billing model are really the best ways to make sure that these projects continue to remain financeable.

Wes Ashworth (21:53)

Yeah, great, great solutions there. I love what you shared there. And as well, think, you know, it's I love the sort of removing those hurdles, just making it easy. You know, think that's such at the heart of everything to really make it work, to make it scale, to make the biggest impact. It's kind of attacking those those directly. So I love that. Community solar as a whole still has this like, is this real, you know, problem with many consumers. Tell us a bit about that. Like what creates we talked about trust, what creates trust at the point of enrollment?

Sandhya Murali (22:14)

Yeah. Yeah.

Wes Ashworth (22:19)

What destroys it instantly and like, what's still hanging around? Like, is this real? That question.

Sandhya Murali (22:25)

Yeah, that's a good question. It does sound like it's too good to be true. Like I sign up and I get these credits magically on my utility bill. So I think it definitely comes from that clarity and consistency early on. People have to understand, you know, in plain language, not company jargon, what am I signing up for? What will I save? When will I save? Who do I call if I need help? How do I cancel? And then, you know, the big one of what's the catch, right?

And so making sure our enrollment process is really There aren't any upfront costs being very clear about that saying that there's, you know, you're guaranteed to receive a discount on whatever solar credits are produced. All of that goes a long way in communicating the value of signing up for community solar. There's a lot of things that we can do that would misrepresent.

things to the customer, right? So we have to make sure we control that. So conflating that, you know, our sales reps are part of the utility, misrepresenting that total savings is on your whole utility bill versus the credits that you're receiving, right? Not kind of addressing all different types of billing models. If we're not very clear about that, or if we misspeak or misstate something, that's going to erode the trust. you know, even if

even if it's working as intended, it's not what the customer expected. And so that's sort of the catch, right? And so we have to be really clear. And that's why simplifying the entire process enables us to be a bit more clear, right? Cause we don't have to explain all these different nuances.

Wes Ashworth (23:45)

Yeah, absolutely. Trust can sound like a soft issue until you realize how directly it affects conversion, retention, and the economics of the whole model. And in a category that many customers still don't fully understand, it's even more important that first impression carries just even more weight.

Sandhya Murali (23:48)

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Wes Ashworth (23:58)

So when you think about the energy burden, what do industry insiders who are financially comfortable tend to miss about how households actually experience their utility bill?

Sandhya Murali (24:07)

I think it's often missed that energy bills just aren't just usage or just another bill to pay, right? The energy burden on lower income Americans is also due to conditions they can't control. Low income households tend to live, or more likely to live in older, less efficient housing. So you have drafty windows, poor insulation, aging appliances, outdated or no heating and cooling systems. It's not just an inconvenience, but it's why energy bills are so high in the first place.

If you're renting, you shouldn't be on the hook for fixing all of that, but you are on the hook for that electricity bill, right? And what's the alternative? No heat, no hot water, no laundry. There's no alternative. And so when energy bills spike, makes those households have a trade-off. Am I gonna pay my energy bills this month? Do I delay it? Do I try and use less heat? I'm making really difficult decisions. And so the fact that community solar can allow people to save 20,

even 50 % in some programs, that can be incredibly meaningful. We have to make sure those people can get on these projects. It's really, for whom Community Solar was designed. And we have to make sure it works for them and works reliably for them.

Wes Ashworth (25:16)

Yeah, it's such a grounding question because a percentage savings on paper, as you said, can just feel very different in real life for those individuals and just great perspective overall and understanding it. I want to widen the lens now a little bit because so much of what you're describing comes back to, you know, kind of a bit of rules, market design, whether the surrounding system helps this model work or makes it harder than it needs to be. There's also a lot of attention on future market expansion, but the health of existing community solar markets may be just as important.

Which current markets do you think are most important to protect and why?

Sandhya Murali (25:47)

Yeah, so I think the markets that are most important to protect are the ones that have already sort of proved out their scale and accessibility. So I'd list New York, Minnesota, Illinois, Massachusetts. They're showing community solar can work at volume and serve a broad mix of subscribers. So, you know, that's where we're seeing growth. I'd probably put Maryland in that bucket as well. And we want to make sure that policies and programs remain robust in those markets.

Wes Ashworth (26:12)

So the great way to think about the growth I think that expansion does not mean much if the markets that started and kind of where the the initial ones and getting going they become unstable. So important to keep maintaining those continue to focus on those as well You know mentioned a few states there markets like, you know, Maine have shown how quickly project economics can change when credit rate shift and and what does that reveal about how fragile market confidence can be when policy changes do change just midstream?

Sandhya Murali (26:38)

Yeah, so I think it's going to be like any infrastructure project, right? So community solar projects rely on long-term investors who in turn are relying on consistent predictable policies, right? That translate into revenue streams for these projects. So policies that can change quickly or have retroactive effects, I think that's really what happened in Maine that was, I think, unprecedented. That's going to spook investors.

And so when those policies change, it's going to undermine the whole financial underpinnings of a project. And that kind of activity is going to discourage ongoing investment in the state. So it's really unfortunate what happened in Maine. I think we've been fighting any potential of that in some other markets with success. But, you know, when you make these investments into any distributed generation project, any real estate investment, right, you're investing for a long period of time and you're financing projects based on

an assumption of what the revenue flows for that project are going to look like. So it can be really detrimental. And so this is why some of the markets that have been growing and continuing to grow, the goal, you know, the hope is that the structure of those markets remain as is.

Wes Ashworth (27:46)

Yeah, that consistency would go a long ways. Capital can usually work through complexity, but that unpredictability is a much harder thing for markets to absorb. You mentioned this earlier. I just want to go back to it. So you've been a strong advocate for utility consolidated billing, especially for that low income customer. Why is it such a critical design choice from your perspective and what should others know?

Sandhya Murali (28:05)

so huge fan of consolidated billing when it's structured properly. It removes a big friction point from the subscriber experience, that ongoing consolidated billing, a customer will receive a bill with that $100 credit that we talked about earlier. And then we will turn around and charge them $80 for that credit. So it'll come on a separate bill. Overall, they're still saving the same amount, but they're going to have to look at two bills to be able to see that.

that savings. So it reduces the friction point. We don't have to collect payment information if the billing is consolidated. So that's a nice security perk of having UCB. And then I think what's what we're seeing in some of our dual bill markets, it can be, you know, depending on kind of where household lies on the low income spectrum can be really tough to pay that second bill,

even if you're saving on balance and you can have meaningful savings, the management of cashflow can be challenging. And so if we remove that element completely, we can open up community solar to households that are quite low income and even those who are unbanked, right? And people who don't have a credit card or a bank account to be able to pay this community solar bill, it's all happening on their utility bill anyway. We can actually bring them into the market and make this work for them. Again.

people who could very significantly benefit from 20, 30 % savings on their bill.

Wes Ashworth (29:27)

Yeah, absolutely seems to make all the sense in the world to me again kind of going back to that simplicity, right? Simplicity, makes makes that again leave in larger impact when you're able to do that. So I'll ask you another question. So as we're thinking about this, if you had the attention of every state regulator and utility executive for 10 minutes, they're all ears, all attention to you. What are the two or three sort of program rules or changes you would you would just most urgently push for?

Sandhya Murali (29:51)

Yeah, I would, I do have three. So first would be make consolidated billing a standard in any market in every market should be the default across the board. Second, we should standardize and simplify low income enrollment. make self attestation, the standard across the board. And then third, these programs should be tech agnostic, right? So in that any distributed renewable energy, including storage should be incentivized.

Wes Ashworth (29:54)

Yeah.

Sandhya Murali (30:14)

and allowed to participate and deliver savings to customers, including those who are low income. So those would be my three top hits with the regulatory community.

Wes Ashworth (30:23)

Love those three. I think super powerful, clear. We've talked about a few of those. Hopefully they're listening and they've heard that now too as well too. So we'll get that out there. Thinking about the industry, right? So what misconceptions do we even experience people in the broader industry still have about how community solar actually works?

Sandhya Murali (30:28)

Yeah. Sounds good.

Yeah, perhaps that it's still a niche or experimental product. So in the mature community solar markets, it functions as a mainstream utility adjacent service and it scales. So mid-scale solar, including community solar, is going to be the fastest to deploy and the only energy resource that can deploy at scale. So that's why we're seeing more community solar in states like New York than any other segment, like utility scale or rooftop.

So when you hear about data centers and load growth, we should really be thinking about community solar as one of the first solutions to help meet that energy need.

Wes Ashworth (31:15)

Yeah, absolutely. It's part of the reason I love doing this podcast and featuring so many different people from different parts of the industry, because I think every part of the industry has its blind spots, you know, and sometimes doesn't know all about, you know, one or the other or there's some misconceptions still out there, even amongst those that are in the industry. So I love clearing that up and providing that perspective as well. So kind of close as we get closer and sort of these final sections here. I want to zoom out and connect this work to just the broader energy transition.

because community solar sits inside a much bigger story about affordability resilience and how people participate in the energy system and you mentioned data centers. I wanted to cover that as well, too and we hear about just load growth and and the demand increasing all this sort of stuff I think it does sit inside community solar inside a much bigger story about rising load, affordability pressure, distributed generation, and grid resilience

Where do you think this market fits in the broader energy transition over the next five years?

Sandhya Murali (32:06)

Yeah, over the next five years, I don't think community solar is gonna dominate total capacity additions. There's some limitations to what percentage of the mix it represents, but I do think it can play a big role in whether this energy transition is going to be affordable, distributed, and accessible. It's the only way to bring savings to the masses.

And building that clean energy consistency is going to be important to continuing to maintain these programs and policies in states that are thriving right now, opening it in new states so that more people can have access. I think really spurring that demand side, that's something that community solar can really do. It's a feel good story. It makes a ton of sense for consumers. It helps communities. And that's something that I think we can really latch onto.

Wes Ashworth (32:53)

Yeah, it's such an important piece of the puzzle. I agree. I think that's the bigger strategic frame because community solar is not the whole answer, but a really, really important critical one. I say often on the show, like it's an and, not an or. We need and, so we need all of it. Exactly. So for the people listening who may be considering a career in clean energy, this is always a topic near and dear to my heart as we try to attract more talent into the industry, especially in a moment that feels politically noisy or uncertain. There's a lot of

Sandhya Murali (33:05)

Yes, need all of

Wes Ashworth (33:20)

You know, you get a lot of press out there. It's usually the negative side. One of reasons I love doing this show too is you hear the real real stories and the real hope and what's actually happening. But what would you want those folks like early on in their career? What would you want them to hear from someone who has stayed in this fight for this long?

Sandhya Murali (33:34)

Yeah, that's a great question. think I would just say that this transition needs all the talented people it can get. I think there's actually, compared to when I was graduating college and what people were interested in doing, I think there's way more interest in clean tech, climate tech from new grads today than there was, I won't say how long ago, but a long time which is really great to hear. And I hope that...

you know, it is a challenging time for a lot of clean tech companies, but companies are still growing. And I think that people shouldn't be scared to enter this industry because like I said, we need, we need a diversity of thought. need a diversity of talent to make sure we are building, you know, strong and robust companies, but also like thinking about bringing people into their regulatory space and the policy space. And, you know, it's all interconnected.

we're not just building companies in a vacuum. It's so interdependent on utilities and state policy and federal policy. So we need sharp minds kind of across the industry and all of these different disciplines. So I would say if you're thinking about it, highly encourage you to join this fight.

Wes Ashworth (34:41)

Absolutely. Great time. I think it's challenging, but what's rewarding that isn't? isn't? And talking about something that actually really make a difference, really move the needle, this is it. And I would encourage anybody don't listen to what any negative stories out there. It's a great time. The industry, as we say, is going up and to the right. There's challenges along the way, but that's what makes it rewarding. when you look ahead,

Sandhya Murali (34:47)

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah,

Wes Ashworth (35:05)

you know, what gives you just personally the most hope either in community solar specifically or in the energy transition more broadly. What's on the horizon that kind of gives you some hope?

Sandhya Murali (35:14)

Yeah, I think.

Honestly, seeing the impact that at least for so speaking from the community solar perspective, seeing the impact that we have on communities on subscribers when we actually talk to them and you know, they've been saving for a long time. They're super excited about the product or you know, the project is being built in their local community and being able to talk to them about it. People get really excited about it. And I think what that's, that's kind of what keeps me hopeful, right? We are building a good thing. This is a good product.

people are getting help, people are saving money, and we're getting more clean energy onto the grid. And so I guess that's sort of a guideline for the future is we have to make sure we keep elevating these stories too, right? It's not just about the companies and sort of the challenges that we're seeing, but we have to elevate the stories of positive impact and positive outcomes that we can have in communities. And that's what I think keeps me going, right? And I think keeps a lot of other folks going too.

Wes Ashworth (36:06)

Yeah, I agree. I love that. A lot of hope and promise there and I agree we need to talk more about that as well. let's fast forward. If we're having this conversation five years from now, what would you most love to be able to say has changed for customers, communities and access to clean energy?

Sandhya Murali (36:12)

Mm-hmm.

I'll sound like a broken record, but I think low income projects can be challenging if the program design isn't done right. So what I'd love to say, what we've been seeing is more states having required low moderate income portions of their projects. And that's been great to see, but it needs to be coupled with the right kind of program design mechanics in place. so.

What I would love to see is some of these really strong LMI programs start to properly scale in a way that really gets financing communities excited about it. So this is a very kind of in the weeds answer, but what I'd love to be able to see is the capital that's flowing into these projects and financing community being very comfortable with low moderate income households.

non-investment grade commercial entities, right? So just rethinking how we're thinking about credit worthiness. A lot of it will stem from program design, but I would love to see sort of the financing community evolve in their thinking of how we're evaluating risk, credit risk on these projects.

Wes Ashworth (37:27)

I love the vision. Love that you got granular as well, too. appreciate the practical look. I always appreciate that. ⁓

Sandhya Murali (37:33)

Yeah, I guess that's

that's my capital markets background showing itself.

Wes Ashworth (37:36)

That's right, which we need a lot of that.

Final question, just anything else that you would like to leave the audience with, things you didn't get to share, any other final words of wisdom or things you want to share about Community Solar, I'll give you the floor. Anything you want to share here?

Sandhya Murali (37:50)

I think so community solar can be very complicated, very in the weeds. It can possibly scare people off. You know, if they're just kind of skimming the surface. But I would just say it's a growing market, right? And I think there's a lot of opportunity and a lot of impact that can be had across multiple.

avenues, right, not just with our developer partners, with utilities, but with subscribers as well. There's a lot of different, a lot of different touch points that Community Solar can have. And so again, sort of along your question about encouraging people to come into this space, there's a lot of opportunity to have impact and sort of exercise different muscles to ensure we're creating a really strong part of the renewables industry.

Wes Ashworth (38:31)

Yeah, love that. Great note to end on. I'll wrap up there. But, Sandhya, this is such a thoughtful conversation. Thank you for sharing both the strategic and the human side of this work. What I appreciate most is you helped make visible the part of clean energy that often stays hidden. You know, that customer infrastructure, the trust building, the policy design, operational discipline to determine whether access is actually real. To everyone listening out there, thank you for joining us for another episode of Green Giants, Titans of Renewable Energy.

If enjoyed this conversation, subscribe wherever you listen, leave us a rating and review, and share the episode with someone else working to build the future of energy. With that, we will see you next time.